Curse

Jigs · Sep 01, 2005, 02:37 AM // 02:37

These past few days when I was playing missions for my new character, I have found the need of ressurection and healing items. WHY?

1. It's hard to get even 1 monk for the group.
2. Henchies - they can heal and Rez good but they are not smart enough to survive long in a fight.
3. Most monks I met now want to smite. They find healing and protecting boring. One time, I have 2 monks in the group, and they are fighting who will smite and who will heal. I understand them becauce they find themselves just in the backseat and just heals and rez allies. That, I agree is boring. With these items they can join the fun of the battle.
4. Not most players carry Ressurection Signet w/ them(Too much reliance on the monk, if monk dies... well you know.)
5. People get angry with the monk if they were not healed while in the fight. It's not easy to spam heal ppl. there are 6-8 people in the group and MonksI have like 40-50 energy.
6. W/Mo's, R/Mo, and so on - well they get into battle frenzy and can't do very much in helping team members.

I have to go now but I will add some more later.

So, what do you say?

Put YES or No and tell us your opinion.

LifeInfusion · Sep 01, 2005, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Healing Monks were always rare.
People that don't bring res think they are undefeatable and are generally stupid.
Henches don't always res well, Alesia waits until every last thing is killed to res. And Alesia likes to tank. -.-

R/Mo is ranged. If they can't help, they shouldn't be monk secondary. They should be able to interrupt/trap/snare/do damage. Some people use /Mo for Res only so don't assume

Shadowdaemon · Sep 01, 2005, 10:01 AM // 10:01

i think it would be nice, but might be able to be abused in some way...

GreatLich · Sep 01, 2005, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Healing Monks were always rare.
People that don't bring res think they are undefeatable and are generally stupid.
Henches don't always res well, Alesia waits until every last thing is killed to res. And Alesia likes to tank. -.-

R/Mo is ranged. If they can't help, they shouldn't be monk secondary. They should be able to interrupt/trap/snare/do damage. Some people use /Mo for Res only so don't assume

Actually, Alesia has got the part about the ressing right, imho...
You really should not rely on your heal monks for resurrection, they've got much better things to do than standing still for several seconds waving their staff/rod around ( 3 seconds at best for a monk, and that option isn't available 'till the southern shiverpeaks )

The part about the R/Mo applies to W/Mo as well, more so even...

edwinna elbert · Sep 01, 2005, 11:09 AM // 11:09

The option of buying something like the ressurection orb seen in the Tombs maps, in a similarway to the Scrolls of insight sold at the traders, could be an interesting addition. The orbs would have to be a normal inventory item though, not something you have to carry around with you.

Kampfkeks · Sep 01, 2005, 11:19 AM // 11:19

hmm, so far every class has some way of selfhealing. It might be efficient or not, but there are ways to heal themselves.

Warrior - Healing Signet
Ranger - Troll Unguent
Mesmer - Ether Feast
Necromancer - Vampiric Skills
Elementalist - Aura of Restoration, Ether Renewal
Monk - ah well

And all of them could bring the most powerful res of them all. Res Signet. So i don't really see the need for healing and res items.
Might be because i'm seeing PVP as a ressource fighting with those items. To be exact, stack up a warrior on potions and whomever is dry on potions first loses. Thats just not the way to play ^^

Hippie Crack · Sep 01, 2005, 11:52 AM // 11:52

1) Every class allready has a form of self heal.
2) Monks should be the last person to res.
3) Dont party with people who dont bring res sig. Its the easiest way to tell if they know anything about the game and what they're doing so just ask them before the mission starts.
4) INVITE MY N/E INTO YOUR GROUP ALLREADY!! Wells+Wards FTW. I cant believe how retarded so many PvE players are. I just started a N/E to unlock skills for PvP and i never remembered PvE players being so retarded since i left PvE about 2 months ago. Where did the mindset that 1 healer + 7 offensive characters(W/Mo seems to be the class of choice) in a party works? Support/Hybrid characters just make everything so much easier on people. I give casters +24 armor vs elements and 50% to evade while giving the melee guys health regen.

quickmonty · Sep 01, 2005, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Just changed my warrior's sceondary to monk and now i carry a heal or two for every mission. Always nice to be able to throw healing seed on myself (or another party member) if the monk is very busy. I don't take res, because i figure if things are that bad i'm not likely to be the one standing at the end of the battle.

Elena · Sep 01, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

i changed my second proffesion to monk today on my ranger and you know why ? to have a bloody unlimited res i tend to get tired of having to tell my team that i cant res cause i already ressed and we havent gotten a moral boost yet

Sofonisba · Sep 01, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

EVERYONE needs to bring some form of rez. No exceptions. If I'm going to waste a skill spot on my bar for you, you better darned well have one for me.

In Thirsty River, rez signet is essentially unlimited due to all the bosses you face (which resets the sig).

Mavrik · Sep 01, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

I am /Mo simply to res others and heal myself... I see this as very important as I rely on myself to survive. If I die in a battle and there are monks around... well I should have been healing myself instead of fighting so much perhaps.

TheGreatBoo · Sep 01, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Healing Monks were always rare.
People that don't bring res think they are undefeatable and are generally stupid.

Lol. My elementalist never brings res. It doesn't fit into his skillbar. So I should drop a nuke just in case someone is a dumbass and needs someone to pick his ass off the floor? Not all people that don't bring res sig are morons. The ones that bring it and don't use it are. The people that don't bring it and run letting someone that does have it die are. If you don't bring one, you have the responsibility of keeping someone else that does have it alive. In pvp, the only real factor here is competition arenas. If I'm the last one standing, then all it will do is prolong a lost fight. If it's a 2v1 or a 1v1, then I can handle it myself or I still wouldn't be standing.

Damon Windwalker · Sep 01, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

A "Why" question cannot be answered "yes" or "no."

Well - it can - but the answer wouldn't make much sense.

So I'll just say no.

Ristaron · Sep 01, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatBoo

Lol. My elementalist never brings res. It doesn't fit into his skillbar. So I should drop a nuke just in case someone is a dumbass and needs someone to pick his ass off the floor? Not all people that don't bring res sig are morons. The ones that bring it and don't use it are. The people that don't bring it and run letting someone that does have it die are. If you don't bring one, you have the responsibility of keeping someone else that does have it alive. In pvp, the only real factor here is competition arenas. If I'm the last one standing, then all it will do is prolong a lost fight. If it's a 2v1 or a 1v1, then I can handle it myself or I still wouldn't be standing.

Anyone who doesn't bring some form of res has no right to call someone who dies for the team a "dumbass", especially when someone would take the time to res you if you fell.

I play a monk... I actually took my heal/protect monk PvPing in the competition arenas for a fun time. We encountered many teams with a healing monk (all but 2 in a long succession of runs), and - as usual, everyone followed the predictable tactic of piling on me first.
Most of the time Shielding hands + healing breeze kept me alive and well so I could heal the rest of the team... but once in a while I died. And the reason my teams lasted so long was because there was always an immediate res.

In tombs, the only res I bring is Light of Dwayna, for if there are 3+ dead allies near me. I just use 25/40 energy and res them all. Then follow up with Divine Healing or Heal Area (I usually only bring the former as it only affects allies) and they're in working condition again. If there are only one or two dead allies 20 ft apart, someone else has to res them.

I make it a point to have a secondary healer around in the team who has a better single-person resurrection spell, and I rarely party with teams who don't have at least 2 res signets or reusable res spells among them. If I die, you guys are probably under some pressure now!

Jigs · Sep 03, 2005, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

A "Why" question cannot be answered "yes" or "no."

Well - it can - but the answer wouldn't make much sense.

So I'll just say no.

The question for the yes or no answer is "Rez and healing items, Do we really need it? Which is the subject for this thread." The "Why is for my statement "These past few days when I was playing missions for my new character, I have found the need of ressurection and healing items. WHY?.... reasons 1-5 "

Today I played my friends monk character, and boy! it was really boring to keep your allies alive. The entire team relied on me to heal them and rez when we did Sanctum Cay bonus. They complained that I didn't heal them and they died. healing skills used 5-10 energy. 8 people to heal(including myself) and not enough energy to heal all. Then I try to play another mission as a monk smiter . No one would even take me, they want a healing monk! people just want monk as healers or protector. No wonder he made another player and abandoned his monk character. Most of us wants to join in the fight and when monks starts to join in, team members will say " just stay back and heal. Yup! that is very fun

Iraqalypse Now · Sep 03, 2005, 02:10 AM // 02:10

lol, just play a monk that is a bit more interesting than the normal "spam heals at people until the fight is over".....

innovation is the key to fighting stale gameplay. If that means dropping some points in healing/divine favor and bringing smiting and running zealot's fire and divine spirit, so be it. If that means becoming a life bond monk and having to deal with negative energy regene, so be it.

Oh, and its a lot more fun in pvp, cuz you can run a booner with drain enchantment and energy drain....

Jigs · Sep 03, 2005, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

hmm, so far every class has some way of selfhealing. It might be efficient or not, but there are ways to heal themselves.

Warrior - Healing Signet
Ranger - Troll Unguent
Mesmer - Ether Feast
Necromancer - Vampiric Skills
Elementalist - Aura of Restoration, Ether Renewal
Monk - ah well

And all of them could bring the most powerful res of them all. Res Signet. So i don't really see the need for healing and res items.
Might be because i'm seeing PVP as a ressource fighting with those items. To be exact, stack up a warrior on potions and whomever is dry on potions first loses. Thats just not the way to play ^^

I am a W/R and I have these 2

Healing signet
problem is that if the awarrior is in full melee, fighting face to face and Your health becomes low. Run away to use Healing Signet, but the enemy will pursue you and it takes about 1-2 sec activate it and while activating it you lose about 33% armor and the enemies are wildly bashing you from behind. The health points gained is lost as fast as you gained it. It's like you didn't heal at all, you only got about half of the healing signet.

Troll Ungent
this works better than healing signet. the problem is that if you got several life draining hexes on you the regeneration process is not fast enough to keep me alive.

I mostly rely on endure and defy pain.

Other healing skills for other class, I don't know

Lampshade · Sep 03, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

We need more necros in this game.

Plague · Sep 03, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Because of the way PvE is made, healing is necessary. If it weren't necessary, it wouldn't be "challenging." What would actually be challenging would be to get rid of healing entirely and make the fights offense-oriented, just trying to deal more damage and reduce damage incurred, spiking or thinning it out. GW right now is just "hack away while you lose HP, see if you can restore the HP; if you can, you win!"

leguma · Sep 03, 2005, 11:23 PM // 23:23

This is where you can tell the bad players for the decent ones.

All classes have self heals, meaning that you should have at least 2 to choose from, however I do think that the skill slot could be spent better. With proper team cooperation, the monk will be able to keep the entire party nice and healthy, provided they don't abuse the healing.

I can't count the stupid people I've seen just standing there and taking a beating. DON'T SPREAD! If you're under heavy fire just retreat, play tag team while the monk tends to you. Tag with the AI is so easy to do and it helps to minimize the damage you take, it helps split large groups up, creates windows for resurrections and oh so many other wonderful things. Don't just stand toe to toe and bash at the enemy relentlessly.

Just because you have a healing monk with you doesn't mean you can just ignore your health bar. They can only heal so much and at the end of the day, as frustrated as you might be for not being healed in a battle, that's how frustrated a monk gets when they have to spend all their energy on a fool necro/warrior who thinks, just because he's hot 3 pips of regen from drains, that he's a tank now.

On the healing/protection versus smiting thing... Yes, Monks are there for healing and protecting but any, and I mean ANY monk can invest points to get smiting up to 4 or 5 and zealot fire is cheap and lasts forever. Conversely, a full smiting monk can deal out a decent amount of damage, problem is most of it isn't targeted and the AoE spells like Balth Aura and Zealot are less effective outside of farming because the AI will spread out in most situations.

As for the rez... The signet is good, damned good, but it depends on what are you are in... Some areas and missions have very few bosses. It depends on your style and profession and skill. Personally, I always have rebirth with me, but 9/10 times, when people start going down it's much better to retreat than to start rezzing.

This also applies to using normal resurrect in the middle of a battle. I can't count the times i've seen people get rezed only to die back again. What is the point? You just gave that person an extra 15% DP. Look around, if the battle is going bad, retreat, don't make it worse.

Another fine art is leaving your corpse in an accessible place. It just sucks when my mesmer is the only person left alive, because i had the foresight to run when the Skeleton Berserkers mowed through half the party, only to find that the AI is corpse camping. Many a times Fast Cast was the only difference between a failed mission and a full party recovery.

Do I think we should have items for healing and resurrection? The answer would be NO. No amount of potions will make you a better player just as four monks can't keep a rushing necro/warrior using healing signet under frenzy alive.